Can we see the face of God and not die?
27/04/2008 23:51
The scriptural reference often
referred to by those who subscribe to the view that we cannot see
the face of God and live (as I did one at one time), is:
"But,” God said to Moses, “You cannot see my face; for no one may see Me and live.” Exodus 33:20
"But,” God said to Moses, “You cannot see my face; for no one may see Me and live.” Exodus 33:20
However, scripture also says we should
seek the face of God:
"Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually." 1 Chronicles 16:11
• "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14
• "When You said, “Seek My face,” My heart said to You, “Your face, LORD, I will seek.” Psalms 27:8
• "Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore." Psalms 105:4
• "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offense, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early." Hosea 5:15
It seems the Bible contradicts itself, or maybe we need to be careful in how we interpret a scripture!
I guess you could interpret the above verses arguing that God was being tricky, that He really didn't mean we should seek His face, or maybe the four verses noted above are ‘in the figurative sense’ only, but not Exodus 33:20?
John Wesley makes an interesting comment “a full discovery of the glory of God would quite overpower the faculties of any mortal man”
Wesley’s point - the full glory of God displayed, we could not stand. Israel did at times see the glory, but not it seems in fullness.
Today it seems people are going to the third heaven, whether physically transported there, visions, dreams I don’t know, but reports are increasing.
A prophetic voice I trust said I would go. It hasn’t happened as yet, but I wait in faith
that it will. Can the Lord do this, will I be able to see Him, but then I die? If I do, what
was the purpose of taking me there?
What if I see His body without seeing His face, is that ok?
While that sounds silly, in truth I had a 'dream' some time ago where it seemed to me I went to the throne room, but I saw only the lower part of God's body, mostly just legs and feet. Indeed now as I think about it, did I only see his lower body because my understanding of scripture was that I couldn't see the face of God because He would kill me? In the throne room it seemed an enormous place and God was big and distant, I could not approach - which of course I now see is not a right view at all!
The thing is I now know He is 'abba' - daddy, He's not remote and distant at all!
The Bible teaches even that the name of God is a word not to be uttered [Leviticus 24:16], and yet we in the Christian church utter it. Of course those who follow the Jewish religion don't utter His name. Even as written, it's often noted as "G_D" or YHWH!
Why is the scripture in Exodus 33:20 taken as true, but not the one in Leviticus?
With respect to the New Testament, John 14:8 and 9 is interesting
"Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus replied, “Philip, don’t you even yet know who I am, even after all the time I have been with you? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking to see him?
Wow - whoever has seen Jesus (and lots of people did at that time), has also seen the Father! All these people who saw Jesus, saw God. True He was a man, but while He was fully man, He was also fully God, and, these people saw Father as well!
Finally, my nephew came to his Dad some months ago and said he didn't understand the following scripture as he thought no one could see the face of God and live.
The scripture is Exodus 24: 9, 10, 11 "Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank."
Can you be transported to the third heaven and hold discussion with God? Using Exodus 33:20 to argue against that is simply one of those limits we place on what may be achieved in God. Personally, I’ve spent too much time doing that!
Chris Ryburn
"Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually." 1 Chronicles 16:11
• "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14
• "When You said, “Seek My face,” My heart said to You, “Your face, LORD, I will seek.” Psalms 27:8
• "Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore." Psalms 105:4
• "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offense, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early." Hosea 5:15
It seems the Bible contradicts itself, or maybe we need to be careful in how we interpret a scripture!
I guess you could interpret the above verses arguing that God was being tricky, that He really didn't mean we should seek His face, or maybe the four verses noted above are ‘in the figurative sense’ only, but not Exodus 33:20?
John Wesley makes an interesting comment “a full discovery of the glory of God would quite overpower the faculties of any mortal man”
Wesley’s point - the full glory of God displayed, we could not stand. Israel did at times see the glory, but not it seems in fullness.
Today it seems people are going to the third heaven, whether physically transported there, visions, dreams I don’t know, but reports are increasing.
A prophetic voice I trust said I would go. It hasn’t happened as yet, but I wait in faith
that it will. Can the Lord do this, will I be able to see Him, but then I die? If I do, what
was the purpose of taking me there?
What if I see His body without seeing His face, is that ok?
While that sounds silly, in truth I had a 'dream' some time ago where it seemed to me I went to the throne room, but I saw only the lower part of God's body, mostly just legs and feet. Indeed now as I think about it, did I only see his lower body because my understanding of scripture was that I couldn't see the face of God because He would kill me? In the throne room it seemed an enormous place and God was big and distant, I could not approach - which of course I now see is not a right view at all!
The thing is I now know He is 'abba' - daddy, He's not remote and distant at all!
The Bible teaches even that the name of God is a word not to be uttered [Leviticus 24:16], and yet we in the Christian church utter it. Of course those who follow the Jewish religion don't utter His name. Even as written, it's often noted as "G_D" or YHWH!
Why is the scripture in Exodus 33:20 taken as true, but not the one in Leviticus?
With respect to the New Testament, John 14:8 and 9 is interesting
"Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus replied, “Philip, don’t you even yet know who I am, even after all the time I have been with you? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking to see him?
Wow - whoever has seen Jesus (and lots of people did at that time), has also seen the Father! All these people who saw Jesus, saw God. True He was a man, but while He was fully man, He was also fully God, and, these people saw Father as well!
Finally, my nephew came to his Dad some months ago and said he didn't understand the following scripture as he thought no one could see the face of God and live.
The scripture is Exodus 24: 9, 10, 11 "Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank."
Can you be transported to the third heaven and hold discussion with God? Using Exodus 33:20 to argue against that is simply one of those limits we place on what may be achieved in God. Personally, I’ve spent too much time doing that!
Chris Ryburn